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April 15, 2024

Warriors Find Faith in the Chaos of Combat

Warriors Find Faith in the Chaos of Combat
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Season 3

As the sun sets on battlefields, the hearts and minds of those who've served often linger in a space where faith and duty collide. Air Force veteran Leola McNeill, alongside other brave service members, opens up about the spiritual odyssey they've embarked on through their time in combat. From the internal tug-of-war between military values and religious beliefs to the profound moments where the divine seemed to intervene, our guests share stories that reveal the depths of the human spirit when tested by war.

Navigating through the murky waters of conflict and conscience, our conversation takes a turn into the realm of the personal and the universal. Warriors, who have undergone profound personal growth, grapple with the commandment 'thou shalt not kill' as they recount the moments where their roles in combat forced them to confront their core beliefs. These narratives stretch beyond the battlefield, touching on the search for truth and peace in a world that reveals its complexities at every corner—be it through the political machinations behind wars or the government disclosures about extraterrestrial life. Such discussions underscore how personal faith and a broader worldview can evolve dramatically in the aftermath of war.

We wrap up our heartfelt dialogue with reflections on the passage of time and the evolution of self. Memories of missile attacks in youth contrast sharply with the mature gratitude expressed by our guests for the journey they've undergone, shaped immensely by their military experiences. The support of loved ones, the lessons learned, and the unwavering faith that has persisted through trials and tribulations are woven together, painting a picture of resilience and hope. Join us for this powerful exchange that honors the voices of veterans like Sister McNeill, Brother Bynum, Brother Curry, Brother Hart, and Brother McDonald and resonates with anyone seeking to understand the complex tapestry of life, faith, and duty. 
#DesertStormVeterans #Combat #OperationDesertStorm

Chapters

00:06 - Strengthening Faith Through Combat

14:37 - Questioning Religion and War Experience

24:51 - Overcoming Religious Beliefs in the Military

29:23 - Reflections on Faith and Survival

36:04 - Supernatural Journey of Survival and Leadership

40:31 - Impact of Combat on Faith

54:12 - Journey of Faith and Maturity

01:08:55 - Expressing Gratitude and Maturity

Transcript
WEBVTT

00:00:06.791 --> 00:00:08.653
So welcome to the Vet Center.

00:00:08.653 --> 00:00:09.214
Roundtable.

00:00:09.214 --> 00:00:09.942
First up.

00:00:09.942 --> 00:00:25.900
We have Air Force veteran Leola McNeil, we have Marine Corps veteran Larry Bynum, army veteran Orrick Curry, army veteran Leonard Hart and Marine Corps veteran James McDonald Group.

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Are you ready?

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Oh yeah, Urban Christian Veterans provides a safe place for Christian veterans of color to discuss the challenges you face in your daily lives.

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Being a person of color has its challenges.

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Being a Christian has its challenges.

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Being a Christian has its challenges.

00:00:46.656 --> 00:00:49.165
Being a veteran has its challenges.

00:00:49.165 --> 00:00:58.189
All of those factors being combined makes for a unique and sometimes difficult life experience that is seldom talked about in public forums.

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Thank you for tuning in to the Urban Christian Veterans Podcast.

00:01:03.127 --> 00:01:05.852
Here's your host, D Allen Rose.

00:01:06.820 --> 00:01:09.768
Thank you, erin, for that wonderful introduction.

00:01:09.768 --> 00:01:16.331
This is D Allen Rose and you are listening to the Urban Christian Veterans Podcast.

00:01:16.331 --> 00:01:23.227
Okay, so first and foremost, let me just say thank you to everyone for joining me tonight.

00:01:23.227 --> 00:01:34.444
I really appreciate you just messing up the audio just now with all of that Potato chip bag rustling.

00:01:34.444 --> 00:01:35.146
You got going on.

00:01:35.146 --> 00:01:37.049
All right, let me start.

00:01:37.049 --> 00:01:38.052
Let me start off.

00:01:38.052 --> 00:01:41.310
My man just bust open a bag of chips today.

00:01:44.584 --> 00:01:45.465
Let me start off.

00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:53.667
I told you I can't get to the mute button fast enough, brother, so I'm going to start over.

00:01:53.667 --> 00:01:57.512
Okay, I'm going to welcome you again and we're going to get into this.

00:01:57.512 --> 00:02:00.305
All right, there he goes again.

00:02:00.665 --> 00:02:01.337
There he goes again.

00:02:01.337 --> 00:02:02.766
Get the bag of wipes.

00:02:07.262 --> 00:02:08.105
Yes, doritos.

00:02:08.105 --> 00:02:08.788
What is that?

00:02:08.788 --> 00:02:16.752
What kind of chips you eat man All right we good, we good man, we fighting or something.

00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:20.588
All right, let me start again.

00:02:20.588 --> 00:02:23.930
So, again, let me first and foremost say thank you.

00:02:23.930 --> 00:02:26.080
Thank you so much for joining me tonight.

00:02:26.080 --> 00:02:27.504
I really appreciate it.

00:02:27.504 --> 00:02:35.670
I know you guys are busy it's evening and you have other things that you could be doing so, first and foremost, let me just say thank you.

00:02:35.670 --> 00:02:41.004
And so let me remind everyone of the topic of discussion today.

00:02:41.686 --> 00:02:53.206
So our topic for today is why does combat cause faith to be strengthened in some veterans while causing others to question it?

00:02:53.206 --> 00:02:55.793
And when I say faith, I'm talking faith in God.

00:02:55.793 --> 00:03:04.967
Right, let me repeat that why does combat cause faith to be strengthened in some veterans while causing others to question it?

00:03:04.967 --> 00:03:33.093
And just to give you some background on this, or some additional info, where I'm coming from is I want you to answer that, or discuss it from the point of view of a veteran, not how you were thinking at the time that you went through, whatever situation you went through, but now that you're older, now that you're a veteran and you're no longer in, I want you to think of it from that perspective.

00:03:33.093 --> 00:03:35.324
So who wants to chime in?

00:03:35.324 --> 00:03:35.786
Anybody?

00:03:36.367 --> 00:03:37.050
Miola's here.

00:03:37.050 --> 00:03:38.820
Okay For me.

00:03:38.820 --> 00:03:43.990
It caused me to really think about who I was in the Lord.

00:03:43.990 --> 00:03:46.455
I had to come to terms with what I truly believed.

00:03:46.455 --> 00:04:00.349
Whenever I was going through the process, I had to decide if I really believed in God or not and that I trust Him enough, based on the things that I had gone through.

00:04:00.349 --> 00:04:02.221
Now you said not to go back.

00:04:02.221 --> 00:04:12.783
What I was going through was they gave us a briefing that told us that being a Christian meant that in that country it violated their laws and the Air Force couldn't do anything for me.

00:04:12.783 --> 00:04:19.565
That was an interesting concept for me, to know that someone found out that I was a Christian.

00:04:19.565 --> 00:04:21.430
I'm violating somebody's laws.

00:04:21.430 --> 00:04:22.860
I hadn't heard that before.

00:04:22.860 --> 00:04:27.793
I'm from Lumberbridge, north Carolina, but I didn't know, anything about that type of law.

00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:36.509
And so I had Baptist, I remember, on my dog tank and so I had to come to terms with the idea.

00:04:36.509 --> 00:04:38.206
I didn't want them to get it confused.

00:04:38.206 --> 00:04:51.209
So I changed it to Christian so that if by chance someone captured me or something, so that if by chance someone captured me or something, that I would be willing to say that I was a Christian and willing to live up to that belief.

00:04:51.209 --> 00:04:57.750
And I still take those dog tags now and I look at them, because at the time it wasn't as easy as I made it sound just then.

00:04:57.750 --> 00:05:00.723
At the time I had angst within myself.

00:05:00.723 --> 00:05:08.086
I remember that I had a whole lot of reservations about whether or not, but I had to say am I true to what I truly believe?

00:05:08.086 --> 00:05:18.661
So that was something that I can say, that I have, and I can look back on it and say I'm thankful that it made me make that decision, that I love the Lord more than anything and I'm willing to stand for it.

00:05:20.083 --> 00:05:20.783
Okay so since then?

00:05:20.783 --> 00:05:23.326
Okay so since then?

00:05:23.326 --> 00:05:32.533
Did that situation have an impact on you as a veteran?

00:05:32.533 --> 00:05:44.011
Like I know that you were going through it at the time and it was kind of difficult, but now that you're several years removed from that, has that impacted you in any way?

00:05:44.031 --> 00:05:46.463
I think it makes me stronger and that I want to share that with people.

00:05:46.463 --> 00:05:57.069
I find that it is my living testimony that I use when I'm talking to other people, um that I talk about that piece, yes, so yes, it does.

00:05:57.069 --> 00:05:59.052
It makes it a big deal for me.

00:05:59.052 --> 00:06:05.831
I use it as part of my own personal testimony okay, anybody else I don't know.

00:06:05.850 --> 00:06:08.641
Sometimes you know to be able to separate.

00:06:08.641 --> 00:06:15.240
You know your young man trying to figure out what you want to do and how you want to do it.

00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:45.084
And you go in the military and they're trying to take everything what I call a cleanser and instill in you all the things that they stand for and their traditions and so forth, that my religious side never left me, but I know that it was always there, you know, and I just had to tap into it.

00:06:45.084 --> 00:07:21.869
But then, on the other hand, finding time to tap into it, and as time went on, let me say, when things really got real really got real, I mean, it's going down All the training, all the leadership skills, everything that you know about the continent to play, and then you put forth all those tools that you have in your toolbox and then things will start happening.

00:07:21.869 --> 00:07:38.711
And I guess what I'm trying to say the night we got hit, that's when it really struck in that this, that about real, and that tomorrow may never come.

00:07:38.711 --> 00:07:49.166
People think about what they're going to do tomorrow, what they got to do tomorrow, but for me, the way this is going, tomorrow might not never come.

00:07:49.166 --> 00:07:57.110
But then when something happens to you and you know that the only reason that you're still here.

00:07:57.110 --> 00:08:05.151
A lot of people say you were lucky and I say no, I was blessed.

00:08:09.324 --> 00:08:40.046
So, after running that garden and then get out and try to put all that to the sky, I was just actually just trying to comfort my mom because I know she loved to get up pray, you know, and I know that she was a mother in the church and I knew that the only way she could get there is through her children.

00:08:40.046 --> 00:08:46.448
And everybody made me feel like, well, you ain't been here.

00:08:46.448 --> 00:08:49.408
You know you've been fighting wars and been in the military.

00:08:49.408 --> 00:08:52.249
You need to start picking up some of the slack.

00:08:52.249 --> 00:09:02.253
So I just got into the rotation and when I did that, I started taking my mother to the church.

00:09:02.253 --> 00:09:11.772
But it was like being back at home and I knew people that knew me all down through the years.

00:09:12.160 --> 00:09:15.190
But all I wanted to do was get downtown to the fashion game.

00:09:15.190 --> 00:09:19.225
That's all I wanted to do.

00:09:19.225 --> 00:09:22.774
And since, you know, up underneath my suit was a jersey, oh wow.

00:09:22.774 --> 00:09:26.062
And it says you know, up underneath my suit was a jersey, oh wow.

00:09:26.062 --> 00:09:33.495
Hat in the truck dropped, my mom gave her a kiss on the cheek and peon right downtown, right.

00:09:33.495 --> 00:09:41.846
And then one day I had to stay out of the church because she was a mother of the church and it was messing my floor up.

00:09:41.846 --> 00:09:50.547
And next thing I know I'm sitting up there in the front row with her trying to niche her on the side.

00:09:50.547 --> 00:09:52.365
Hey, you know, we got the bounce.

00:09:52.365 --> 00:10:17.115
Now we got to go, and she passed the torch to me that day, okay, and she reminded me that our family history is in the church and that I've been chosen to carry that choice.

00:10:18.062 --> 00:10:20.269
Okay, right on Anybody else.

00:10:23.405 --> 00:10:34.870
So when she said that, you know, I was like this is a big bathroom and I went to my favorite blues dangle Spread the Pee and I said why leave, right?

00:10:34.870 --> 00:10:38.847
And she said why not?

00:10:38.847 --> 00:10:46.888
And it started as a whole, changed reaction and she said look around the church.

00:10:46.888 --> 00:10:52.631
People here have to be led and taken care of.

00:10:52.631 --> 00:10:56.912
And I'm like, well, how that goes with me.

00:10:56.912 --> 00:11:05.448
And she said our name and our family name is in here and it has to remain in there.

00:11:05.448 --> 00:11:09.345
And I know if you take this torch you will make it so.

00:11:09.345 --> 00:11:31.125
So, with all that military background and all that stuff that I've been through, all those tight spots I've gotten out to, this seemed like it just started coming into play, but when I got into the spirituality of it it all began to make sense.

00:11:31.125 --> 00:11:34.111
Okay, Okay.

00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:37.048
It really did, and I've been there ever since.

00:11:38.341 --> 00:11:41.610
I appreciate that Anybody else.

00:11:42.500 --> 00:12:15.509
Well, as for me myself, as far as I already had religion in me, me and I was a God fear man and as I came from, from the war and everything you know, it kind of opened my eyes up more to be more, um, giving and nurturing the people, because to me you never know, I could have died out there myself because the vehicle behind me got blown up.

00:12:15.509 --> 00:12:19.830
I had to give medical attention to the guys that was there.

00:12:19.830 --> 00:12:27.109
I know God was with me that day because that could have been me.

00:12:27.109 --> 00:12:48.631
Without my faith in the Lord, in God, I don't think I probably a lot of things I don't think I would make it, because my sister, she was heavy in the religion so she sent me a what's the name of it?

00:12:49.011 --> 00:13:02.184
Fred Hammond tape, fred Hammond CD, and I listened to Fred Hammond like almost every day and that I'm telling you, the church music, the music, the gospel music.

00:13:02.184 --> 00:13:09.024
Once you start listening to it you get that feeling, you get more into it.

00:13:09.024 --> 00:13:17.947
Even when they had the chaplain, they would have service.

00:13:17.947 --> 00:13:21.306
I would go to the service and I would attend.

00:13:21.306 --> 00:13:39.511
As far as me, being a veteran now, I still keep my faith and I still attend church, not as regularly, as I used to, because I'm more of a giver.

00:13:39.511 --> 00:13:49.836
I give and I help people, and my wife would be the first one to tell you I give and I help people, and my wife would be the first one to tell you you're always helping everybody.

00:13:49.836 --> 00:13:52.763
I want to do something around the house and I'm like I do stuff around the house.

00:13:52.783 --> 00:14:11.589
The thing is, I mean when I see somebody that needs help, I help them, you know, and I give and for me that's how I tide I give to people and I help people and I give a lot.

00:14:11.589 --> 00:14:19.307
And the thing is I don't realize until it's done and it's like, wow, but you know I let it go and everything.

00:14:19.307 --> 00:14:25.799
But you know, god has me, you know me and him, have our relationship and everything.

00:14:25.799 --> 00:14:32.734
So as me, being a veteran, right now, I feel good with me and the Lord.

00:14:33.561 --> 00:14:33.881
Okay.

00:14:34.263 --> 00:14:36.590
I appreciate that Anybody else.

00:14:37.780 --> 00:14:42.509
I think what got me the most was, you know, your whole life growing up.

00:14:42.509 --> 00:14:45.595
All you hear in church is thou shalt not kill.

00:14:45.595 --> 00:14:48.720
You join the military.

00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:55.961
You're not thinking, hey, I'm going to go kill somebody, because you have family in the military and they never saw combat.

00:14:55.961 --> 00:15:02.999
You're not even thinking but me being infantry at the time and seeing combat.

00:15:02.999 --> 00:15:08.951
And actually you know doing what we had to do.

00:15:08.951 --> 00:15:14.591
Well, to me we didn't have to do it because we all know we were lied to about it.

00:15:14.892 --> 00:15:26.374
Anyways, as far as us being over there, we know Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction because we gave it to him.

00:15:26.374 --> 00:15:34.859
We know what 17 out of the 19 terrorists from Saudi Arabia.

00:15:34.859 --> 00:15:42.466
But we don't go to Saudi Arabia to fight them, we go to Kuwait because that's the richest part of Iraq.

00:15:42.466 --> 00:15:51.322
In 1950 and we took it from them, iraq was coming to get it back To me.

00:15:51.322 --> 00:15:52.524
That's why we was over there.

00:15:52.524 --> 00:15:55.832
Okay, and plus the oil.

00:15:55.832 --> 00:16:13.647
But I just feel like I was lied to and because of a rich man not Jesus, not God, but because of a rich man, not Jesus, not God, but because of a rich man, you know wanted to keep his territory or whatever the case may be, he gets sent over there to kill people.

00:16:13.647 --> 00:16:19.269
I mean, it wasn't to defend the United States, it wasn't to defend our people, nothing like that.

00:16:19.269 --> 00:16:22.190
Because if that was true, we would have went to Saudi Arabia.

00:16:22.190 --> 00:16:27.447
That's where you know bin Laden was, went to Saudi Arabia, that's where you know bin Laden was from.

00:16:27.447 --> 00:16:33.285
You know, I mean, and plus, like I said, 17 out of 19 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia.

00:16:33.285 --> 00:16:36.201
But that's like me hit you and you hit me down.

00:16:36.201 --> 00:16:41.690
You know why are we going to Kuwait when Saudi Arabia did it?

00:16:41.690 --> 00:16:44.850
But anyways, you know, we got lied to about a lot of wars.

00:16:44.850 --> 00:16:45.818
We got lied to about a lot of wars.

00:16:45.818 --> 00:16:48.568
We got lied to about a lot of things.

00:16:49.659 --> 00:16:54.351
But one thing I just remember from when I was little.

00:16:54.351 --> 00:16:57.489
One of the first things you remember is thou shalt not kill.

00:16:57.489 --> 00:17:04.853
You know, and when you do you look at your life like you know you're going to hell.

00:17:04.853 --> 00:17:08.519
When you do you look at your life like you know you're going to hell.

00:17:08.519 --> 00:17:17.476
I mean, I feel like you can repent all you want, but he only asked for 10 things and I couldn't do that, you know.

00:17:17.476 --> 00:17:20.762
And I mean I've been to church, I had pastors talk to me about it and you know, explain to me.

00:17:20.762 --> 00:17:21.523
You know this, that and the other.

00:17:21.523 --> 00:17:32.361
But Moses didn't come down and say thou shalt not kill unless you're in war or unless you're doing this or you know whatever he said thou shalt not kill, you know.

00:17:32.361 --> 00:17:37.588
And when you do that, it changes your whole perspective on life.

00:17:37.588 --> 00:17:44.707
I mean, it messes with your head, your psyche, it messes with your religion.

00:17:44.707 --> 00:17:49.622
You know, it does bring questions to me.

00:17:49.622 --> 00:17:51.886
It brings questions and stuff like that.

00:17:51.906 --> 00:17:53.269
But I never questioned god.

00:17:53.269 --> 00:17:54.732
I never questioned jesus.

00:17:54.732 --> 00:17:59.104
You know I have questioned, uh, christianity.

00:17:59.104 --> 00:18:02.189
I have requested, uh, question my religion.

00:18:02.189 --> 00:18:07.027
You, you know stuff like that and I've done my own research.

00:18:07.027 --> 00:18:09.509
I never read the whole thing.

00:18:09.509 --> 00:18:14.028
I was reading the Koran that's like 80%, just like the Bible.

00:18:14.028 --> 00:18:16.663
You know, I got some Jewish friends.

00:18:16.663 --> 00:18:17.626
I was going to read their Bible.

00:18:17.626 --> 00:18:21.106
They said, nah, man, we'll just tell you about it because you ain't going to understand it.

00:18:21.106 --> 00:18:34.729
But you know, just coming from different religions, you know a lot of it's almost the same, you know, and it's really God to me.

00:18:34.729 --> 00:18:40.780
You know, being a Christian, god, jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, and that's that you know.

00:18:40.820 --> 00:19:02.624
After that, a man shouldn't be able to tell you that you got to go to war and you're not protecting nobody, you're just going over there because, like I said, in the 1950s, england and the United States took the richest part of Iraq, which was Kuwait, and made their country, put their own people in there, and all that.

00:19:02.624 --> 00:19:06.249
And then Iraq, saddam Hussein, was like I'm going to get my country back.

00:19:06.249 --> 00:19:18.622
The reason a lot of this, I know, is because we had over 790 POWs and Iraqi POWs and they look just like me and you.

00:19:18.622 --> 00:19:22.027
I mean, you couldn't tell the difference.

00:19:22.027 --> 00:19:32.865
I mean they look just like us and they're telling us yeah, I mean they look just like us and they're telling us yeah, you know, they're telling us stuff that the United States is.

00:19:32.865 --> 00:19:33.728
What do you call it?

00:19:34.963 --> 00:19:36.650
The propaganda in the United States?

00:19:36.650 --> 00:19:43.865
They're going to tell us what we want to hear, but they won't tell us the whole truth, just like we're talking about aliens.

00:19:43.865 --> 00:19:48.087
Now, we always knew there was aliens, but now it's like okay, there's aliens, you know.

00:19:48.087 --> 00:19:51.547
I mean, it's just all the lies that we've been told our whole lives.

00:19:51.547 --> 00:19:54.949
And then when we get older and find out the truth, it really hurts.

00:19:54.949 --> 00:19:57.384
Wait a minute, wait a minute.

00:19:57.403 --> 00:19:59.608
Let me make sure I heard that correctly.

00:19:59.608 --> 00:20:02.465
Did you just say you just found out about aliens?

00:20:03.307 --> 00:20:10.672
No, no, no, the government just put out there that they really are aliens.

00:20:10.672 --> 00:20:11.375
Oh, did they?

00:20:11.375 --> 00:20:12.984
Yeah, they just put it out.

00:20:12.984 --> 00:20:24.864
I think it was last year or something like that, but they finally put everything out there and we actually won that yeah, there's an alien at Area 51.

00:20:24.864 --> 00:20:26.670
They got a spaceship at Area 51.

00:20:26.670 --> 00:20:34.193
All kinds of stuff that we always knew, but we couldn't like put our finger on it because they never told us.

00:20:34.193 --> 00:20:38.592
But finally they went ahead and like let some of that stuff go and told us everything.

00:20:38.592 --> 00:20:39.986
I mean, you can Google it, you know.

00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:44.590
But you know we're going back to the religious part of it.

00:20:44.590 --> 00:20:51.164
You know it messed with my head, you know.

00:20:51.164 --> 00:20:55.032
But, um, I've been doing a lot of reading, a lot of talking.

00:20:55.032 --> 00:21:00.531
I'm doing a lot better with that, but I think you know a lot of my brothers who was in there with me.

00:21:00.531 --> 00:21:04.028
You know it kind of messes up a little.

00:21:04.028 --> 00:21:09.615
As far as thou shalt not kill, you know there was no, thou shalt not kill because of this, that and the other.

00:21:09.615 --> 00:21:11.186
It was just thou shalt not kill.

00:21:11.186 --> 00:21:14.585
And you know I joined the military.

00:21:15.867 --> 00:21:16.828
Right, I got you.

00:21:16.828 --> 00:21:19.213
I got you.

00:21:19.213 --> 00:21:22.128
That's a good point.

00:21:22.128 --> 00:21:28.105
So, yeah, we might need to come, we might need to revisit part of that.

00:21:28.105 --> 00:21:32.088
So I'll come back to you on that, brother Curry, any thoughts?

00:21:33.153 --> 00:21:36.977
Yeah, you know, when I thought about religion.

00:21:36.977 --> 00:21:58.082
I grew up in a very religious family, went to church every Sunday and you know my mom, my grandparents, religious family Went to church every Sunday and you know my mom, my grandparents, when I finally made the decision to go into the Coliseum and said that, went to me and joined the military, they was like why?

00:21:58.082 --> 00:22:02.188
And I said I want to make a difference.

00:22:02.188 --> 00:22:20.070
I want to make a difference, I want to do something else, I want to travel, I want to do the things that is required for me.

00:22:20.070 --> 00:22:30.637
You know, kept me stronger to a religious belief, believing in God and how he has helped me through things.

00:22:30.637 --> 00:22:37.683
Now I struggled, as we all do.

00:22:37.683 --> 00:22:49.990
We're human and I heard Brother Biden talk about you know, thou shalt not kill, and I didn't think of it that way.

00:22:49.990 --> 00:22:54.144
I thought of it as I'm a warrior and by me being a warrior, I'm here on a mission to protect.

00:22:54.144 --> 00:23:01.962
Now we all know in war, things come out later that we said why were we there, why were we here?

00:23:01.962 --> 00:23:07.631
And then the lives that we took that we didn't have to take.

00:23:07.631 --> 00:23:22.304
It puts a lot of burden on you when you said and you come to find out later that while we were there, was not all the way the truth being told to us, but we was there for a mission, we was there for an assignment.

00:23:22.304 --> 00:23:35.954
And when we look back on all of this, I have sleepiness nights and I really thank God for allowing me not to go down that deep road.

00:23:35.954 --> 00:23:40.730
Now I have some sleepiness nights, I have some sweats, I have some reminiscing.

00:23:40.730 --> 00:23:48.164
I've seen colleagues get blown up, and not just only there but also being in law force, so I have double whammy of it.

00:23:49.386 --> 00:23:55.742
But I think a lot of people have to go and find their inner need with God.

00:23:55.742 --> 00:24:02.494
Okay, because sometimes we look for others and sometimes we just got to ask him.

00:24:02.494 --> 00:24:19.486
And I think sometimes that's where we fail ourselves, because we're looking for something somewhere else or somebody else to give it to you, when he's right there with you each and every day and when we don't take that and embrace that it affects us.

00:24:19.486 --> 00:24:22.667
Now he knows all what we do, good or bad.

00:24:22.667 --> 00:24:27.249
We might hide it behind the door, behind the closet or whatever, but he knows.

00:24:27.249 --> 00:24:40.675
And you know, I ask myself what would it be like to say God, you know, guide me.

00:24:40.675 --> 00:24:45.488
And if he guides me, you know, I know.

00:24:45.488 --> 00:24:50.347
He knows what my past is like, but he also knows what my future is like.

00:24:51.901 --> 00:24:55.691
And for other veterans who are in service, you know most of them battle this.

00:24:55.691 --> 00:25:10.548
It's not easy, because when you come from a religious family, what do you think you know, am I going to be a positive projector or being that grandma saying, you know what?

00:25:10.548 --> 00:25:17.223
I'm only going to work in this position or in this place and I'm not going to shoot and do the things?

00:25:17.223 --> 00:25:21.403
It's not reality, especially when you're required to do something.

00:25:21.403 --> 00:25:30.953
And I think you asked us the question that's most important is when we talked about what religion?

00:25:31.059 --> 00:25:33.528
Because when we're in the military, you've got all religions in nature.

00:25:33.528 --> 00:25:57.737
We've got different religions that enter the military and you've got people who are non-believers in the military, believe it in the military, but we all come because we have a one objective goal in whatever service that we're doing, is to provide for our family, for ourselves, and sometimes how do we get through that and how do we survive that?

00:25:57.737 --> 00:26:12.968
After it's all said and done, when we get to come back home, see, over there, you're over there fighting and you're surviving and all this other stuff, and you're thanking God or whomever you believe in, and then you get back, and then you forget.

00:26:14.141 --> 00:26:15.124
We help you get back.

00:26:15.124 --> 00:26:25.325
We do it, and sometimes we and he'll remind us, but sometimes, when he reminds us, it might be too late.

00:26:25.325 --> 00:27:07.448
And so you know, I just hope that we, as veterans that are battling with our beliefs, we all have different beliefs and just you know our religious belief, our belief in whatever we do like when Don talked about you know his family beliefs, like Neil talked about how she had to deal with being in the Air Force and how that all and she had to change or she had to, you know, make some decisions, and now she gets to go back and look over those decisions.

00:27:07.448 --> 00:27:19.410
We all do, and the thing about it is how do we sleep after all this is said and done, when you want to ask God to let you rest tonight so I can get up and refresh the ball?

00:27:21.500 --> 00:27:23.944
Okay, rhino, any thoughts?

00:27:24.626 --> 00:27:32.527
I have a thought that for me I had a grandparent who was an interesting part.

00:27:32.527 --> 00:27:42.028
He finished high school at the age of 72, so he's not one of your PhD type of religious people, you understand.

00:27:42.671 --> 00:27:50.994
So he had a practical faith, and what was interesting is that the things that I had to hold on to is my anchor.

00:27:50.994 --> 00:28:01.780
Scripture was all things work together for good for those who love the Lord and are called according to his purpose, and so that, and that nothing could ever separate me from God, heighten my depths.

00:28:01.780 --> 00:28:11.571
And whenever it came to these aliens that Larry was talking about, I knew about them early, because I remember running to my grandfather and say these things don't exist, do they?

00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:15.846
And he said yes, they do, baby, and that was an interesting thing to me.

00:28:15.846 --> 00:28:19.530
I was eight when he gave me that philosophy.

00:28:19.530 --> 00:28:32.055
He said they exist and they are mighty, but your God is almighty, you know, and when you read the scriptures, you actually see these people talk about you don't see God hiding them.

00:28:32.055 --> 00:28:40.471
He says that there's principalities and powers and that there are things that were created and that it can be in different places.

00:28:40.471 --> 00:28:45.886
They have angels, you know, and interestingly enough, we think of those things as being something not real.

00:28:45.886 --> 00:28:58.083
But when you see the carvings of all of those things, if you look at the history channel, you see these beings that are carved from somewhere that didn't come from somebody's imagination.

00:28:58.083 --> 00:28:58.844
This way, I think.

00:28:58.844 --> 00:29:14.510
And so my grandfather was a practical 72-year-old man who never, when he finished school it was eighth grade, but he had a really good theology up under him and he let me know it's not about me, it was about Jesus Christ who died for me.

00:29:14.510 --> 00:29:17.862
We have this crazy religious that's different from everybody else.

00:29:17.862 --> 00:29:23.142
See, it's not about what I've done, but what Jesus did for me, and so that helped me a lot.

00:29:23.623 --> 00:29:26.630
And then I was listening to Larry talking about the wars and stuff.

00:29:26.630 --> 00:29:31.772
If you look at the Old Testament, you should see the wars that they had.

00:29:31.772 --> 00:29:34.421
David was a warrior just like we're talking about.

00:29:34.421 --> 00:29:35.883
When Curran was talking about him.

00:29:35.883 --> 00:29:37.645
He was a warrior just like we're talking about.

00:29:37.645 --> 00:29:38.428
When Curran was talking about.

00:29:38.428 --> 00:29:46.769
He was a warrior and they didn't just kill one thing, they wiped out the entire group, everything, women and children and all those types of things.

00:29:46.769 --> 00:29:53.903
So the way it came and that came after your Moses, the 10 commandments thou should not kill, and that was God directed.

00:29:54.325 --> 00:29:57.131
And so that's one of the things that I can say.

00:29:57.131 --> 00:29:58.101
That's there.

00:29:58.101 --> 00:30:09.582
When I read the Bible, I see where those things and Jesus even told us that before he comes back, there are going to be wars and rumors of wars, and so we know that those things are going to happen.

00:30:09.582 --> 00:30:21.451
And so that's for me, and I can say that that 72-year-old man who did not have those PhDs that you hear everybody else with, he was able to give me a firm foundation on what it is.

00:30:21.451 --> 00:30:24.747
And it's not about me, it's about what Jesus has done for me.

00:30:24.747 --> 00:30:29.711
And when I had to make that decision to put that Christian on my dog tag.

00:30:29.711 --> 00:30:31.987
I think he had something to do with it.

00:30:31.987 --> 00:30:37.602
When I think about it now, he had a lot to do with the fact that I don't want you to get twisted, I don't want you to get confused.

00:30:37.602 --> 00:30:38.928
This is who I am.

00:30:38.928 --> 00:30:40.652
I'm a follower of Jesus Christ.

00:30:41.096 --> 00:30:42.746
So, yeah, so I'm going.

00:30:46.114 --> 00:30:48.064
I don't think it weakened anybody.

00:30:48.064 --> 00:30:54.451
I think everybody who believes made it stronger.

00:30:54.451 --> 00:30:56.643
For me it made it stronger, you know.

00:30:56.643 --> 00:31:04.349
For me it made me stronger, you see, and, like Corey said, I'm a warrior and I know it.

00:31:04.349 --> 00:31:11.173
You see, and I had to deal with the Marines that were thinking just like Biden was thinking.

00:31:11.173 --> 00:31:17.900
I didn't want to change their minds, but I had to put them in a situation that the task at hand.

00:31:17.900 --> 00:31:27.048
We'll worry about all that when all this is over with, but right now, right here, is now.

00:31:27.602 --> 00:31:39.190
I need everybody on the same page, you know, because I want to go home, just like everybody else do, and I know this thing is not going to go according to plan.

00:31:39.309 --> 00:31:39.912
I know that.

00:31:39.912 --> 00:31:50.847
You know there's going to be, by the grace of God, that some of us will walk away and some of us not, but there's no end in front of us and we're trying to get that right.

00:31:50.847 --> 00:31:55.464
And I found that out even as I walk the streets today as a veteran.

00:31:55.464 --> 00:32:14.964
And I found that out even as I walk the streets today as a veteran, you know, I had to be very familiar with the way I talk, the way I walk and how I carry myself, because the things that I've been molded with does not apply in these streets.

00:32:14.964 --> 00:32:17.307
The same things don't apply in the church, you see.

00:32:17.307 --> 00:32:21.009
People say one thing in church and turn around and do something else.

00:32:21.009 --> 00:32:32.844
I think Margaret said it best last night Hate don't like the truth, you see, and I believe that I really do.

00:32:32.844 --> 00:32:37.195
So I stick with that truth, because that truth, that death will make me strong.

00:32:37.195 --> 00:32:45.554
And when it happens to you and you know it, because there's nobody but God, there's just nothing you need anymore.

00:32:47.861 --> 00:32:48.703
That's interesting.

00:32:48.703 --> 00:32:50.390
That's my journey.

00:32:50.390 --> 00:32:54.684
No, that's interesting that you say that because you know.

00:32:54.684 --> 00:33:02.256
You talk about the concept of when you get to the point where you know that it was nobody but God right.

00:33:02.256 --> 00:33:13.819
It's the reason why I frame the question like I did, because I'm a true believer that God has these things, what we call revelations.

00:33:13.819 --> 00:33:24.415
What I mean is I'm not talking about the book of revelations, I'm talking about God reveals things to you when you are ready and not before you are ready.

00:33:25.800 --> 00:33:39.539
And so I framed the question the way I did, because a lot of us, when we went through what we went through back then, we weren't ready for the revelation that it was nobody but him Right.

00:33:40.342 --> 00:33:52.342
And it's after you got out and then after you lived a little bit longer and had some more experience, and you say, man, I should not, based on what I know today, there is no reason for me to be here right now.

00:33:52.342 --> 00:33:57.112
Now you know it was nobody but him Right.

00:33:57.112 --> 00:34:03.329
But it took many, many years of living for him to reveal to you these things.

00:34:03.329 --> 00:34:18.273
It's like saying you can read a Bible scripture today and 10 years from now, read it again and have a different interpretation because you've had 10 more years of living and he will reveal to you the new understanding, because now you're ready.

00:34:18.273 --> 00:34:25.373
10 years ago you weren't ready for this, so you had your own understanding, or at least you had an understanding based on your experiences at that time.

00:34:25.373 --> 00:34:34.954
So it's a very, very good point that you made that a lot of us get to the point where we reach the understanding that, yeah, it was nobody but him.

00:34:34.954 --> 00:34:39.260
There's no other way at all my journey.

00:34:40.505 --> 00:34:50.985
When I had that heart attack I made it great and when it was all cleared and done, I remember this doctor coming in the ICU.

00:34:50.985 --> 00:34:58.742
The first thing he did, he put a slinger on my main auto-exam's in my brain and he told me.

00:34:58.742 --> 00:35:00.789
He said you're the luckiest man in the world.

00:35:00.789 --> 00:35:07.231
And I said what makes you say that?

00:35:07.231 --> 00:35:15.434
He said, man, we almost gave up on you Because they know, and they would know this, when they do this, they on the clock.

00:35:15.434 --> 00:35:20.110
They know and let Nero know this, when they do this, they on the clock, they on the time clock.

00:35:20.110 --> 00:35:27.539
They got enough time to shut you down and they got enough time to crank you back up, mm Okay.

00:35:27.539 --> 00:35:34.864
And when you don't meet that time limit, you're putting them in a position where they got to call it, and that's where I was.

00:35:36.469 --> 00:35:36.811
Okay.

00:35:37.101 --> 00:35:50.065
I had got down to second before they got rid of the collar and all of a sudden my heart just popped right up on me, and that's when I said to myself I want nobody but God.

00:35:50.465 --> 00:35:50.907
There you go.

00:35:50.907 --> 00:35:53.923
And that's true, that is a very true statement.

00:35:53.923 --> 00:36:03.070
After we are hitting on your, pumping on your chest long enough, there is a time that we have to say well, we have done all we can do.

00:36:04.101 --> 00:36:08.833
It was so hard for me to breathe because I knew I was struggling.

00:36:08.833 --> 00:36:10.291
I knew that.

00:36:10.291 --> 00:36:12.523
I asked them.

00:36:12.523 --> 00:36:15.532
I said why am I having such a hard time breathing?

00:36:15.532 --> 00:36:19.628
You know, that's because all the air had run out my ass.

00:36:19.628 --> 00:36:20.530
Stop that, stop that.

00:36:20.530 --> 00:36:26.490
I mean it's funny now, but it wasn't funny then.

00:36:26.490 --> 00:36:41.989
But I can remember when they was rolling me into the ICU and this brother just ordered me I can't think of this guy's name, but I know if I ever see him again I'll never forget it and he said he just looked at me and he just said you are truly blessed.

00:36:41.989 --> 00:36:48.507
We didn't think he was going to make it up to me fast and they took good care of me.

00:36:48.507 --> 00:36:51.786
I mean their profession.

00:36:51.786 --> 00:36:55.228
They took real good care of me.

00:36:55.228 --> 00:36:56.985
I'm here today because of them.

00:36:58.610 --> 00:37:02.125
So, God put people around me too.

00:37:02.125 --> 00:37:06.989
It made sure that I was taken care of.

00:37:06.989 --> 00:37:08.606
Now just think about this.

00:37:08.719 --> 00:37:09.905
This was an angel's journey.

00:37:11.382 --> 00:37:13.487
I walked out of Grady on Wednesday.

00:37:15.211 --> 00:37:15.512
Okay.

00:37:16.581 --> 00:37:20.851
You know where the parking lot is, down by McDonald's on the other side of Grady.

00:37:20.851 --> 00:37:28.786
Right, my wife was on the third deck, yeah, and I walked out of that house all the way to that car.

00:37:28.786 --> 00:37:34.289
Okay, right on All the way up there.

00:37:34.289 --> 00:37:37.215
And that's a supernatural thing, no doubt, and that's the supernatural thing.

00:37:39.320 --> 00:37:42.909
It's a supernatural thing, man, and nothing can kill me.

00:37:42.909 --> 00:37:45.657
You're full of things, yeah, nothing.

00:37:45.657 --> 00:37:55.811
And I know that there's other veterans probably don't experience some of the same things that I have that made it through those crossroads like that.

00:37:55.811 --> 00:38:10.346
And this military man, this stuff on the leadership side, when you get up to a certain level in leadership, especially on the Marine Corps side, and there's a black senior staff NCO, you either got it or you don't have it.

00:38:10.346 --> 00:38:25.851
A lot of people wear it and talk the talk, but when it's time to walk, that walk and their feet hit them and they don't know how to handle that, or they've been in an MOS that didn't keep them around the fleet.

00:38:25.851 --> 00:38:28.244
You could see it in them.

00:38:28.244 --> 00:38:36.490
You could see it in them and they're running like flies and you'd be like, where in the hell did you join the Marine Corps from?

00:38:36.490 --> 00:38:40.108
You see, I mean it's amazing.

00:38:40.108 --> 00:38:45.112
I've had Lance Corporals, pfcs, with more courage than some staff NCOs that I've met.

00:38:45.112 --> 00:38:56.786
End of the day, they begin to realize what they're held accountable to and what they're responsible for.

00:38:56.786 --> 00:39:03.407
You see, and they're not on the same level that you are and they think I'm crazy.

00:39:03.407 --> 00:39:07.969
They think the way I operate is just crazy.

00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:12.632
See, I don't have time to do a whole lot.

00:39:12.632 --> 00:39:16.775
I have to deal with what's ahead of me and what I have to deal with.

00:39:16.775 --> 00:39:23.248
I have to encourage everybody around me that I know what I'm doing and I see things that you don't see.

00:39:23.248 --> 00:39:28.625
I know things that you don't know and I'm praying to God that I get this right.

00:39:28.625 --> 00:39:42.614
You know, and I'm just going to tell, I'm just going in as distant, scared as anybody else, but I have to be lifted up in a way where they don't see all these things.

00:39:42.614 --> 00:39:44.425
That's pushing me and bothering me.

00:39:45.262 --> 00:39:53.409
And when I get out, some of the same things that I have to push myself was in my church organization.

00:39:53.409 --> 00:39:55.867
I had to be above the rim with everybody else.

00:39:55.867 --> 00:39:56.998
I had to be above the rim with everybody else.

00:39:56.998 --> 00:39:59.882
I had to be above the rim of the line.

00:39:59.882 --> 00:40:01.443
Can't worry about your path.

00:40:01.443 --> 00:40:05.208
That's between you and God that you have to work out.

00:40:05.208 --> 00:40:18.764
But I had to stay right on that path and I can't bring my military to the fold because it doesn't belong there, but I can always reach for it if I need it.

00:40:18.764 --> 00:40:21.525
It's a beautiful thing.

00:40:21.724 --> 00:40:25.007
Let me ask this question, Brother Bynum did you have something you wanted to add?

00:40:25.007 --> 00:40:27.329
It looked like you were anxious to say something.

00:40:27.329 --> 00:40:29.204
I might be wrong.

00:40:29.644 --> 00:40:30.889
No, I'm good, I'm good.

00:40:31.369 --> 00:40:44.594
Okay, let me ask this question because it sounds like, given the question about combat having this impact on faith.

00:40:44.594 --> 00:40:47.164
Now, the question I have is why?

00:40:47.164 --> 00:40:49.090
Why combat?

00:40:49.090 --> 00:40:57.472
Right, there's a, there's a lot of things that people have a tendency to experience, but what is it about combat?

00:40:57.472 --> 00:40:58.554
And I'm talking about?

00:40:58.554 --> 00:41:08.304
There's a whole bunch of what you call traumatic things that even people who have never been in the military go through.

00:41:08.304 --> 00:41:10.329
That impacts their faith.

00:41:10.329 --> 00:41:22.735
But what is it about combat in particular that either strengthens a person's faith or causes them to question it?

00:41:22.735 --> 00:41:25.068
What is it about combat specifically?

00:41:27.625 --> 00:41:39.074
This is what I will kind of say, because when you're in combat, your survivability is being questioned.

00:41:39.074 --> 00:41:47.034
Because when you're in training or you're in the rear or you're somewhere else, it can happen.

00:41:47.034 --> 00:41:48.987
There's accidents that can happen.

00:41:49.719 --> 00:41:52.789
But when you're in combat, you are put in harm's way.

00:41:52.789 --> 00:41:59.889
You are there not only for yourself, but your battle buddies, comrades, teams.

00:41:59.889 --> 00:42:06.764
You got so much going on and then you're in an environment, in most cases, that you know nothing about.

00:42:06.764 --> 00:42:11.130
So that's another stressful factor that puts you in.

00:42:11.130 --> 00:42:18.050
You leave in your comfort zone and you go in somewhere that there's no comfort there.

00:42:18.050 --> 00:42:31.831
There there is nothing that you know, and that stress level goes up because when you have your briefings you're tall, they tell you to look to your left, look to your right, look behind you looking for me?

00:42:32.079 --> 00:42:33.927
That person might not be your own, why don't I?

00:42:33.967 --> 00:42:41.030
meet you back and I can say that for reality that did take place in some of the combat experiences that I had.

00:42:41.030 --> 00:42:44.827
Right, my combat is Bacali, then I go back now.

00:42:45.230 --> 00:42:49.664
Yeah, I could be in a rear and there's a train accident and somebody died or something of that nature.

00:42:49.664 --> 00:42:53.847
That was an incident, okay, but there you are in combat.

00:42:53.847 --> 00:43:00.610
You are in combat and your faith, your belief and everything else is questioned.

00:43:00.610 --> 00:43:03.579
And when you're in the rear you feel safe.

00:43:03.579 --> 00:43:18.922
I might say a prayer, I might go to church, I might do this, but when you are there, you know it's everybody in church, you know it's everybody in church, everybody going and getting their praise.

00:43:19.123 --> 00:43:19.925
It's different.

00:43:19.965 --> 00:43:20.346
Yeah man.

00:43:20.346 --> 00:43:28.509
Everything is Everybody's in there.

00:43:28.708 --> 00:43:33.409
I'm going to piggyback off what Corey just said.

00:43:33.409 --> 00:44:00.690
Yeah, I can remember when the Scuds hit down in Riyadh and it hit this army in Thalassie, killed a lot of folks and the next thing I know everybody that was in Riyadh was running up where we were up on the line, because now they know that they can get cut anywhere they are.

00:44:00.690 --> 00:44:07.505
You know you might be down there playing expertise, eating hot cow every day.

00:44:07.505 --> 00:44:16.367
You know being able to call a hole, but the scuds was coming down there blowing things up and they were coming over the top of us.

00:44:16.367 --> 00:44:21.449
We know they was on the way, but we didn't know they were dialing in to hit Riyadh.

00:44:22.681 --> 00:44:33.246
So what he's saying is you know, even though in that conference zone that's why I say, when things just really got real, you start seeing all these people, oh where y'all come from.

00:44:33.246 --> 00:44:42.190
When y'all move up here, you see now they in it now, they in it now, and that combat just started pushing up that next level.

00:44:42.190 --> 00:44:52.889
That next level just jumped off and it's an amazing thing, especially when you don't know the difference between outgoing and incoming.

00:44:52.889 --> 00:45:00.804
You see, you can always feel when they first get there, when they hear that boom, they start ducking.

00:45:00.804 --> 00:45:08.907
I'm not saying that you get used to it, but you know what's happening around you and you never forget things like that.

00:45:09.302 --> 00:45:11.789
I can remember at night, it was the most dangerous part.

00:45:13.380 --> 00:45:31.088
Nighttime is the dangerous part, because when people scattered, they just running all over the place trying to find a bunker, trying to get low and trying to turn the lights out and stuff and hoping that whatever that rocket that's coming down our way doesn't hit anybody and kill anybody.

00:45:31.088 --> 00:45:37.179
And I've always said that if the Iraqis know how to shoot, they would have killed a whole lot of Marines.

00:45:37.179 --> 00:45:47.048
That's because we was only 32 miles from Kuwait when they held Kuwait and the separator too.

00:45:47.048 --> 00:45:52.349
You'll never be the separator because that memory will always be with you for the rest of your life.

00:45:52.349 --> 00:45:54.849
It will always be there.

00:45:54.849 --> 00:45:58.597
Whether you was a cook, whether you was a truck driver, whether you was a grunt, with you for the rest of your life.

00:45:58.597 --> 00:45:59.079
It will always be there.

00:45:59.719 --> 00:46:11.126
Whether you was a cook, whether you was a truck driver, whether you was a grunt or a mail hammer, whatever your occupational field was, everybody played a role and everybody had a part to play and everybody did their duty.

00:46:11.126 --> 00:46:17.365
And to come back home and to feel safe and sound you don't never feel safe.

00:46:17.365 --> 00:46:20.768
You know we could be sitting out eating somewhere.

00:46:20.768 --> 00:46:23.784
Somebody threw around there, popped something off.

00:46:23.784 --> 00:46:26.646
You know, first thing we're going to do is try to find out where it came from.

00:46:26.646 --> 00:46:29.007
You know, we're never comfortable.

00:46:29.007 --> 00:46:34.567
That's the part I have a problem with when I go to a restaurant and people get ready to seat me.

00:46:34.840 --> 00:46:37.106
If that seat, don't look right to me, I'm not sitting there.

00:46:37.106 --> 00:46:38.952
Don't ask me why.

00:46:38.952 --> 00:46:41.108
It's just my way I speak.

00:46:41.108 --> 00:46:42.865
I got to have that wall.

00:46:42.865 --> 00:46:45.807
I got to have everybody in front of me.

00:46:45.807 --> 00:46:50.034
You know, I can't enjoy the evening with my back to everybody.

00:46:50.034 --> 00:46:53.027
You know, and that was the time I didn't care nothing about stuff like that.

00:46:53.027 --> 00:47:01.623
But I do when I, when I'm in traffic, I don't get right above somebody's car, I make sure I can be able to get out, but traffic will run into somebody.

00:47:01.702 --> 00:47:10.648
It's just these things that I have in my head, that I know that to protect myself or what I need to do, I can do that.

00:47:10.648 --> 00:47:13.807
But I've also known that I I can't.

00:47:13.807 --> 00:47:17.105
I don't carry my weapon with me no more, like I used to.

00:47:17.105 --> 00:47:20.172
I don't strap, I don't strap.

00:47:20.172 --> 00:47:24.331
And the reason I don't strap is I don't want to kill nobody accidentally.

00:47:24.331 --> 00:47:27.407
I don't want to kill nobody out of anger.

00:47:27.407 --> 00:47:30.849
I don't want to kill somebody cause I can't.

00:47:30.849 --> 00:47:35.431
I ain't that dude that says that I won't defend myself.

00:47:35.431 --> 00:47:47.108
Now I will defend myself, but I don't need that military guy to hit me and I react to him Because, see, I'm not a delayed person.

00:47:47.108 --> 00:48:12.445
Once I make my mind up, it's on, and I know that and that's the scary part, it scares me, so I don't put things around me that if I had to push that button there's something that I may regret or something that I didn't take a second to think about and I've already had that happen once, and when I calmed down and thought about it it really scared me.

00:48:12.445 --> 00:48:22.851
All the hard work I've done, everything that I've done everything that I have been taught that my intolerance that I've gotten would have all been washed away.

00:48:22.851 --> 00:48:31.663
I've been sitting there 12 by 12 fighting these hooligans off of me, which I'm too old to do anyway.

00:48:31.663 --> 00:48:41.664
Now I'm not a young man anymore and I just started putting things in order and then that that kind of threw me more to the church.

00:48:41.664 --> 00:48:57.248
I guess you know, and like uh heart was saying earlier, you know, uh, doing work around the church, doing things for the church and and being a giver, you know, and just help out in my family whenever I can.

00:48:57.248 --> 00:49:03.445
You know, and I don't straddle the fence with anything I do, and I know the Lord don't.

00:49:03.519 --> 00:49:08.472
My two favorite prophets in the Bible I got three of them.

00:49:08.472 --> 00:49:13.168
Elijah is one of them, paul is one of them.

00:49:13.168 --> 00:49:14.487
And Moses, paul is one of them.

00:49:14.487 --> 00:49:22.269
And Moses, those not catch peas right there, because we're not.

00:49:22.269 --> 00:49:26.146
Sees the story of these guys and how they went about.

00:49:26.260 --> 00:49:29.909
Now, david was a bad boy too that my nanny was talking about.

00:49:29.909 --> 00:49:31.085
He, straight up was.

00:49:31.085 --> 00:49:33.460
He even killed another man for another man's wound.

00:49:33.460 --> 00:49:36.108
I mean that stuff is just crazy.

00:49:36.108 --> 00:49:44.791
But I sit with them because I like Elijah, because Elijah knew about the Lord but he wasn't handling it.

00:49:44.791 --> 00:49:51.025
And when the Lord came upon him he said you had to show me who you is.

00:49:51.025 --> 00:49:52.650
Just because you said don't make it so.

00:49:52.650 --> 00:49:58.983
And when the Lord showed him who he was and brought him to his knees, he was locked in.

00:49:58.983 --> 00:50:05.132
Then Paul always had time to share the word of God with anybody.

00:50:05.132 --> 00:50:20.545
Moses took Israel out of Egypt and out of all the things the Lord did for them, they were still ungrateful and all the learning curve from that was he was trying to teach them how to love and take care of each other.

00:50:20.545 --> 00:50:22.070
That's all he was asking them to do.

00:50:22.184 --> 00:50:28.110
But the journey wasn't going to be as easy as the journey, and we all know the journey on the road is not easy.

00:50:28.110 --> 00:50:30.871
You're going to hit some bumps in the road.

00:50:30.871 --> 00:50:32.931
So I'm prepared for all that.

00:50:32.931 --> 00:50:52.130
You know I'm going through a journey right now with a church that I'm trying to hold on to, but the haters in the church is trying to throw all the officers in the way to keep it from happening, but they won't win because I got the Lord on my side and I know that he's leading you to not that way.

00:50:53.186 --> 00:51:01.804
Okay, come, said that they gonna feel me and when they do, it's gonna be a done deal, and I already know that.

00:51:01.804 --> 00:51:03.972
That's the best part about it.

00:51:03.972 --> 00:51:10.951
I already know that, and the reason I know I can feel them, that's the spirit that dwells in me.

00:51:10.951 --> 00:51:12.938
Okay, right on.

00:51:12.938 --> 00:51:22.528
I know I might sound like a pafty, but I'm not Just an ordinary man, just like everybody else, trying to do the right thing, the right way for the right reason.

00:51:22.528 --> 00:51:25.715
Right on, jesus, and I did.

00:51:25.715 --> 00:51:26.717
He's still alive.

00:51:26.717 --> 00:51:31.985
That's not what's about any other thoughts?

00:51:32.005 --> 00:51:46.110
I know you said you're going to close in about an hour, but I wanted to say this Whenever Desert Storm happened in 91, I was in the reserves at the time and people asked me why don't you get out?

00:51:46.110 --> 00:51:48.675
Why don't you get out?

00:51:48.675 --> 00:52:05.114
And I continued on because, to me, whenever I saw what everyone was going through, I happened to receive some patients because I'm a nurse and I felt like those children belong to some mama somewhere.

00:52:05.114 --> 00:52:10.938
You know what I'm saying and I would want someone to take care of my child in that situation.

00:52:11.358 --> 00:52:24.699
So I chose, instead of spending 10 more years in the reserve and it's between the 20 until they kick me on out but, yeah, I wanted to be there for them whenever they were going through what they were going through.

00:52:24.699 --> 00:52:32.728
I wanted to hold their hands, I wanted to make sure that they knew somebody there cared for them and I can love them and pray for them.

00:52:32.728 --> 00:52:35.253
So you can't keep me from loving you, right?

00:52:35.253 --> 00:52:35.974
You can't do that.

00:52:35.974 --> 00:52:44.331
I can love on you, whether you love me back or not, and I can pray for you, whether you want me to pray for you or not, even if I do it in my silence.

00:52:44.331 --> 00:53:05.543
You understand, I'm going to pray for you and I'm going to love you because and I wanted to be there for that, and I just wanted to say that before I left- Okay, and we thank you for that, because you know everybody says when you go to combat, you gotta come back one way or another.

00:53:07.009 --> 00:53:10.552
When you come back, who is going to be there to support you?

00:53:10.552 --> 00:53:14.672
Who is going to be there to take care of you?

00:53:14.672 --> 00:53:31.614
Who is going to be there to make sure you recover for some of the things that you can count while you're there, you look big black Coming back, because we do come back in stars.

00:53:31.614 --> 00:53:51.289
Even the ones in the rear have stars as well, because they have to deal with the acting like they have to push things and some of the things that we don't know that all of them.

00:53:51.289 --> 00:54:12.110
But they can kind of understand us because they, you know they're with us, not saying they come back when we come back, they're with us after the sacrifice, and so that's what you call a chariot, that's what you call a person who is there to help you.

00:54:12.471 --> 00:54:30.668
You sometimes don't know how to help yourself and when you pray for them, even though and I'll say this my mom, my aunts and uncles, they were all prayer warriors for me and they said, hey, I'm a prayer warrior for you.

00:54:30.668 --> 00:54:32.074
I can't do what you doing.

00:54:32.074 --> 00:54:37.960
I can't do what you doing, but I'm going to be there and I'm going to pray for you.

00:54:37.960 --> 00:54:53.615
So God will give you your mind, your body and your soul to come back, and that was very important to me and some days I didn't know if I was going to make it back.

00:54:53.615 --> 00:54:54.967
I can say that.

00:54:54.967 --> 00:55:08.592
But when I got the opportunity to come back, I said thank you God for allowing me to get back five times, because I need a time drive to go Right on.

00:55:10.659 --> 00:55:25.215
And so to have them to say that is very important and, you know, thank you for being there for me, the ones that need it, because we all need that support.

00:55:26.286 --> 00:55:33.773
Absolutely, and I think that you, just the both of you just pointed out something.

00:55:33.773 --> 00:55:49.340
That again the reason why I framed the question the way I did, being a little selfish because, as Brother McDonald talked about the scud that hit, it was Daharan, by the way, not Riyadh.

00:55:49.380 --> 00:55:49.621
Yeah.

00:55:50.985 --> 00:55:56.277
And 27 people got killed from a quartermaster unit out of Pennsylvania.

00:55:56.297 --> 00:55:57.117
That was that missile?

00:55:57.117 --> 00:55:59.753
Right, I know because I was there.

00:55:59.753 --> 00:56:03.851
I know because I was, I witnessed it.

00:56:03.851 --> 00:56:10.193
I talk about how the question was framed because, right or wrong, indifferent, I don't know.

00:56:10.193 --> 00:56:25.175
I was 20 years old, I wasn't even 21 yet, and as a 20-year-old, to see that at night, because it happened at night, my emotions went from excitement.

00:56:25.175 --> 00:56:38.572
Because you see this thing in the sky at night, and because this was not the first Scud missile, you got used to it and you were just expecting oh, these patriots are going to go get that man, this is about to be a firework show.

00:56:38.572 --> 00:56:39.074
You know, wow.

00:56:39.074 --> 00:56:40.438
And all these patriots are going to go get that man.

00:56:40.438 --> 00:56:41.422
This is about to be a firework show.

00:56:41.422 --> 00:56:41.864
You know, wow.

00:56:41.864 --> 00:56:48.277
So there's a bunch of 20-year-olds sitting around watching this thing come down and then there's a.

00:56:48.277 --> 00:56:56.793
So I went from excitement to then there's an altitude that, once it gets below, you know that's good, I ain't going to get it.

00:56:57.724 --> 00:56:58.594
I mean that patriot is not going to get it.

00:56:58.614 --> 00:56:59.625
I mean that that Patriot is not going to reach it.

00:56:59.625 --> 00:57:14.398
So there's an altitude that it gets below, and once it got below that altitude I went from excitement to horror and just, and then it's coming so fast that you can't move quickly enough.

00:57:15.746 --> 00:57:16.389
There's no yeah.

00:57:16.411 --> 00:57:17.335
Like where are you going to run?

00:57:17.376 --> 00:57:22.248
You know, it was like where are you going to run to that's the butterfly, that's the butterfly, that's the butterfly.

00:57:22.248 --> 00:57:23.512
And so, and?

00:57:23.512 --> 00:57:30.731
But then brother bynum talked about being lied to, the thing that hurt most about that situation.

00:57:30.731 --> 00:57:36.449
So I went from excitement to horror seeing the explosion and then kind of blacking out.

00:57:36.510 --> 00:57:39.416
I'm you know some stuff happened and I won't get into it.

00:57:39.416 --> 00:57:44.394
But then the next day they hit the, the.

00:57:44.394 --> 00:57:46.478
Uh well, the other thing that we witnessed was the.

00:57:46.478 --> 00:57:50.532
The missile fell apart right, standing right up under it.

00:57:50.532 --> 00:57:58.396
It fell apart right where it was supposed to hit us and hit them instead, and the other piece went out into the Gulf by the.

00:57:58.396 --> 00:57:58.976
Damanport.

00:57:58.976 --> 00:57:59.938
I don't know if y'all remember that.

00:58:00.724 --> 00:58:19.106
That other piece went out there the next day for the Armed Forces Command to say, to dispute what the witnesses were saying Now y'all didn't fire no scud, I mean no Patriot, nobody fired anything, it just fell apart and all this.

00:58:19.106 --> 00:58:23.271
But they were disputing what we were saying.

00:58:23.271 --> 00:58:26.887
That hurt, it's like.

00:58:26.887 --> 00:58:27.851
Why are we going to lie?

00:58:27.851 --> 00:58:31.246
I was there, I saw it, y'all didn't fire nothing.

00:58:31.246 --> 00:58:35.088
And to know, there was three Patriot batteries around.

00:58:35.088 --> 00:58:38.853
We kind of knew those guys because they used to let us use their sat phones to call home.

00:58:38.853 --> 00:58:48.009
One at the expo, one at the airport, right went out there by the port.

00:58:48.028 --> 00:58:49.050
I think it was we knew the guys.

00:58:49.851 --> 00:58:50.032
So.

00:58:50.032 --> 00:59:05.981
So when they tell you, the people who got their fingers on the button are telling you now the the reason we were told by the guys on the ground that they didn't was because it was tumbling and they couldn't get a fix on it because it was tumbling, it was right.

00:59:05.981 --> 00:59:47.501
Nevertheless, I bring that up because at the time, in terms of faith and all of that for me, of faith and all of that for me, it's much different now as a veteran, because at the time I did not have world experiences that told me it was nothing but god at the time I was excited and then horrified, and then a whoo, and you know, and for a 20 year old, without the maturity of life, to be able to speak, I guess, speak with with confidence and maturity to someone else about faith?

00:59:48.347 --> 00:59:50.554
I wasn't, I wasn't built at that time for that.

00:59:50.554 --> 01:00:01.025
But now, as a veteran, having all of these life experiences and getting to that point where you know is nothing but God, that's right.

01:00:01.025 --> 01:00:04.233
Now I can speak on it, and so that's why I framed the question that way.

01:00:04.233 --> 01:00:17.369
And Brother Curry, sister McNeil, y'all talked about something in a way that described maturity so many years ago that I did not have.

01:00:17.369 --> 01:00:18.597
Admittedly I didn't have it.

01:00:18.597 --> 01:00:19.521
I mean I'm not have, admittedly I didn't have.

01:00:19.521 --> 01:00:21.989
I mean, I'm just being real, I was, I was.

01:00:23.090 --> 01:00:23.771
I wasn't mature.

01:00:23.771 --> 01:00:24.713
Let me just say it that way.

01:00:24.713 --> 01:00:30.255
Right, I just wasn't, I wasn't that mature dude, I was not the one you want to come talking to.

01:00:30.255 --> 01:00:41.791
If that, if that's this, if that situation impacted you negatively and you needed someone to talk to, don't come talk to me, because you would have got some foolishness, you know, talking to me back then.

01:00:41.791 --> 01:00:52.715
But now, after having years of experience, I can now say, okay, we can have that conversation, you know.

01:00:52.715 --> 01:00:55.775
So I applaud you guys for that.

01:00:55.775 --> 01:00:58.494
I wish I was more mature back then.

01:00:58.494 --> 01:00:59.427
I just simply wasn't.

01:00:59.427 --> 01:01:04.990
You know, for a 20-year-old that was kind of I ain't gonna lie, as I said, I started out exciting.

01:01:04.990 --> 01:01:16.431
I was looking for the light show, I thought it was going to be something we were going to brag about the next day, you know, and them cats, that thing hit the building.

01:01:17.726 --> 01:01:26.059
I'll say this, I wasn't eager, so you know, my thing is, it's just over time frame and the maturity level.

01:01:26.059 --> 01:01:27.222
Same way with the dollar.

01:01:27.222 --> 01:01:38.914
Over time frame the maturity level changed, which put me in a better place to go back and look at some of the stuff that I had endured and say it could not be nothing but love.

01:01:38.914 --> 01:01:58.364
It got me deep in and having those prayer warriors behind me, those ones that's praying for me, because we all need prayer and when we get it and we accept it, we understand it and that's important.

01:01:58.364 --> 01:02:04.858
And so for me I can see it because I feel your pain, me and my buddies.

01:02:04.858 --> 01:02:07.304
We were in hasty fighting positions.

01:02:07.304 --> 01:02:11.019
I decided to go left and dig my hasty fighting position.

01:02:11.019 --> 01:02:15.324
He decided to go right to dig his fighting position.

01:02:15.324 --> 01:02:24.208
We hit a cluster ball and I was literally yards away from him, my wife, said why are?

01:02:24.228 --> 01:02:25.572
you up in the air and fall down.

01:02:25.572 --> 01:02:29.855
Now I'm a combat life saver, so my thing is okay.

01:02:29.855 --> 01:02:31.085
Now it's time for me to play.

01:02:31.085 --> 01:02:32.291
Was I prepared for that?

01:02:32.291 --> 01:02:42.112
Reality struck All the days I was training and someone sticking the dummy and the people sticking needles in me, ivs and all this other stuff, all this stuff.

01:02:42.112 --> 01:02:44.389
Now I had to put that in action.

01:02:44.389 --> 01:02:45.411
I'm going to tell you what happened.

01:02:45.411 --> 01:02:47.536
I folded.

01:02:47.536 --> 01:03:01.552
I folded for a couple of seconds until somebody hit me in the back and said what you going to do, and it took me Because you know what you said.

01:03:01.552 --> 01:03:04.251
You had that dark moment of blackness you don't remember.

01:03:04.251 --> 01:03:05.512
It's just like I remember.

01:03:05.512 --> 01:03:07.557
I just froze, I didn't, I had no.

01:03:07.557 --> 01:03:19.065
And then, after somebody nudged me, I reacted and I'm going to tell you I didn't remember none of that for a minute.

01:03:19.065 --> 01:03:26.226
I didn't remember none of that for a minute, and it was years later.

01:03:26.246 --> 01:03:37.673
I had met a colleague of mine that worked at the department, that knew her nephew served with him and it just so happens, and he reminded me I had to get.

01:03:37.673 --> 01:03:39.873
He said I remembered you that day.

01:03:39.873 --> 01:04:04.650
You were full of blood, you, you, you were soaking wet and full of blood and we had to literally wash you completely off, because you know you got blood everywhere and I still today by him reminding me I can't remember it.

01:04:04.650 --> 01:04:23.336
So sometimes we will go into a mode of deep thought or deep, or blocking something out so that we can get through whatever we got to get through and somebody else will remind you of something that you forgot.

01:04:23.336 --> 01:04:31.106
So you basically hit it on the head there and you said that you like and you made me think about something we all like.

01:04:31.106 --> 01:04:34.456
Was that, like a jealous story, make you think about something I didn't remember?

01:04:34.456 --> 01:04:35.630
It was a, it was a flower.

01:04:35.630 --> 01:04:37.831
We have those moments.

01:04:37.831 --> 01:04:42.637
We just sometimes need somebody to bring those moments back.

01:04:42.637 --> 01:04:51.074
And when they bring them back, you've got to get them to say how am I going to handle this and bring them back Because it might take you down the space that I want to go.

01:04:54.391 --> 01:04:57.864
My biggest job was to keep my people focused.

01:04:57.864 --> 01:05:07.271
My biggest job was to keep my people focused when he rose.

01:05:07.271 --> 01:05:08.275
He gave a good analysis of that.

01:05:08.275 --> 01:05:17.601
After that happened and then when it shrunk in and I can see that clear as day and my biggest job was you know what Corey was getting at.

01:05:17.601 --> 01:05:20.635
You know, even I froze.

01:05:20.635 --> 01:05:30.838
I'm leaving this pack and I froze, but I knew I had to keep myself together to keep everybody else together.

01:05:30.838 --> 01:05:35.489
I had the bland scope man that was stronger than me, but I wouldn't let them know that, you see.

01:05:35.489 --> 01:05:44.605
But that was my biggest job was keeping people focused, man, that you know what happens.

01:05:44.605 --> 01:05:50.112
If we could have had them right here where we at, you see, it could have been better.

01:05:50.112 --> 01:05:54.811
You see, it's just keeping everybody focused and keeping everybody on point.

01:05:55.673 --> 01:06:00.494
I think all my energy went into my Marines.

01:06:00.494 --> 01:06:03.648
All my energy went into my Marines.

01:06:03.648 --> 01:06:06.806
I'm the first one on and I'm the last one to get on.

01:06:06.806 --> 01:06:13.086
I make sure that they're taken care of because, at the end of the day, they're doing what I'm asking them to do.

01:06:13.086 --> 01:06:22.213
And then there's some that I got to tell what to do, and then there's some I just got to grab them by the collar and just take them where they need to go with this thing.

01:06:22.213 --> 01:06:49.166
And at the end of the day, like when we had a reunion down in Duford, they all master sergeants and gunnery sergeants down when they were 21 years old back then 22 years old, and they decided to stay in the Corps and the first thing they did when they called me, they came up and hugged me and they thanked me for taking care of them and that they learned a whole lot from me.

01:06:49.166 --> 01:06:53.891
That was my reward and I cherish that to this day.

01:06:53.891 --> 01:06:56.786
I cherish that Now.

01:06:56.786 --> 01:07:02.630
Little did they know that there was a senior master sergeant that was keeping me straight.

01:07:02.670 --> 01:07:07.824
You see so you know, when help was to one another.

01:07:07.824 --> 01:07:23.811
And that help I had was a Vietnam vet, didn't have no business being in the war on his way out the door and they shut him down and sent him to the war with me, sent him to the war with me, sent him to the war with me.

01:07:23.811 --> 01:07:26.789
But I didn't want him to go because he had did his thing.

01:07:26.789 --> 01:07:27.851
You know what I'm saying.

01:07:27.851 --> 01:07:31.112
Two tours of Vietnam and here he is.

01:07:31.112 --> 01:07:35.295
I said you ain't got no business being here, man, it's my turn.

01:07:35.295 --> 01:07:37.550
But little do I know.

01:07:37.550 --> 01:07:49.315
I thank God for sending him with me Because he was well-rounded, he was well-experienced and when he saw me with them butterflies, he knew how to calm me down.

01:07:49.315 --> 01:07:52.634
And when he calmed me down I got the butterflies out of me.

01:07:52.634 --> 01:07:54.251
He knew I was good to go.

01:07:54.291 --> 01:08:15.512
Then I was a true combat vet, being molded right then and there what they call on the job training, you see, and I was able to take that and run with it, not only to take it and run with it, but I was able to take care of my Marines better, you know, as the leader for them and all that.

01:08:15.512 --> 01:08:19.587
But at the end of the day, about quiet moments, I was just like Corey man.

01:08:19.587 --> 01:08:20.652
Sometimes I just cry.

01:08:20.652 --> 01:08:27.306
I can believe all this is coming out of me like that, but I'm well-rounded in it.

01:08:27.306 --> 01:08:30.329
Now you know death and destruction, man.

01:08:30.329 --> 01:08:34.131
I mean, the battlefield is my playground.

01:08:34.131 --> 01:08:38.090
Now you know, I know about it anymore.

01:08:38.090 --> 01:08:43.091
But when I look at the world, I look at it as a battlefield man.

01:08:43.091 --> 01:08:50.311
I really do, but just on a different level, without the deaf in the structure.

01:08:50.311 --> 01:08:54.992
But I see it like that and I just wanted to get that in there.

01:08:54.992 --> 01:08:56.069
It's been good.

01:08:56.250 --> 01:08:57.252
I appreciate it man.

01:08:57.252 --> 01:09:14.921
It has been very good and I wanted to tell you I had 15 years on your dog whenever I experienced that I wasn't nearly as mature at 20 as I was at the time I made that decision it sounded like y'all were just playing.

01:09:14.921 --> 01:09:19.350
I need to make sure I clear that up with you.

01:09:19.350 --> 01:09:20.154
I appreciate that I had it together.

01:09:20.175 --> 01:09:21.180
I need to make sure I clear that up with you.

01:09:21.180 --> 01:09:21.783
My darling Okay, right on, Okay.

01:09:21.783 --> 01:09:22.164
I appreciate that.

01:09:22.164 --> 01:09:29.061
I appreciate it because I, you know, as I said, my maturity level simply wasn't there.

01:09:29.244 --> 01:09:31.171
I didn't want you to think I was that immature at 20.

01:09:31.171 --> 01:09:34.813
No, no, no, I had 15, maybe 16 years, but don't tell nobody yeah.

01:09:34.972 --> 01:09:35.635
I feel you.

01:09:35.635 --> 01:09:36.945
I feel you, but I was.

01:09:36.945 --> 01:09:37.969
I feel you but I was.

01:09:37.969 --> 01:09:38.911
I appreciate it.

01:09:38.911 --> 01:09:40.274
I appreciate you guys.

01:09:40.274 --> 01:09:43.835
Tonight, man, I'm really, really thank you for this.

01:09:43.835 --> 01:09:46.092
You had no idea how much I appreciate this.

01:09:46.092 --> 01:09:48.840
And look, we got to do it again sometime.

01:09:48.840 --> 01:09:50.744
All right, we got to do it again sometime.

01:09:50.744 --> 01:09:59.100
So, with that said, thank you, sister McNeil, brother Bynum, brother Curry, brother Hart and Brother McDonald.

01:09:59.100 --> 01:10:04.836
Thank you so much for doing this with me and we're going to go ahead and sign off.

01:10:04.836 --> 01:10:10.194
So with that, may God keep you, may God bless you, May God continue to be with you.

01:10:10.194 --> 01:10:11.537
Thank you so much.